Awaken: Firstly, thank you for spending this time with us. I’m so happy to share the deeper dimensions of Lou Reed the poet, and Lou Reed the Tai Chi practitioner

with those who may only know you from The Velvet Underground and Andy Warhol! We may touch on your earlier work later on, but I’d like to focus on your Tai Chi practice, which takes center stage in your life, and has so, for many years… How did you first become interested in Tai Chi?

Lou Reed: I had seen a video of Master Ren. So, I went to see him in his rented dance studio opposite the Public Theater. Anyone who has seen him and has interest in the art becomes his student. We all do. I wanted to learn his technique of explosive internal power: Fajin.

Awaken: What place does Tai Chi hold in your life?

Lou: I study 6 to 7 days a week for two hours a day when not touring. I’ve done demos with Master Ren everywhere from Carnegie Hall to the steps of the Sydney Opera House, where we did a seminar this past spring.

When I tour, it is with my Tai Chi. Not to get too flowery here, but I want more out of life than a gold record and fame.

Awaken: What do you want?

Lou: I want to mature like a warrior. I want the power and grace I never had a chance to learn.

Awaken: I heard you say once that it gives you a special kind of protection… What did you mean by that?

Lou: Because Tai Chi puts you in touch with the invisible power of—yes—the universe. The best of energies become available, and soon your body and mind become an invisible power. My Tai Chi has protected my body. Change your energy; change your mind. You have more ability than you know.

Awaken: How long have you studied Tai Chi?

Lou: I have studied Tai Chi for more than twenty-five years. The first fifteen or so in preparation for my adventures with my teacher Master Ren GuangYi.

Awaken: What motivates you to continue, after so many years, and to still go deeper into this tradition and practice?

Lou: I do not want to go gently into fat – senility – lethargy. (Other countries teach art or meditation in school. We have woodshop. Life for the uninspired.) Tai Chi is also a martial art of unparalleled sophistication. It is a system, put together to maintain health and physical prowess.

Awaken: For the “Tai Chi curious,” can you summarize the practice?

Lou: It is both a complete martial system, and a comprehensive form of exercise that promotes fitness, coordination, and relaxation. When practicing Tai Chi Chuan, which translates as “Grand Ultimate Fist,” the practitioner uses consciousness, breathing, and movement, which are closely connected.

Tai Chi stimulates the body and calms the mind, resulting in a balanced outlook and improved health and vitality.

Awaken: Would you speak a bit more of those benefits?

Lou: Regular practice promotes wellness, through a series of sinuous, flowing movements, while providing tools for self-defense.

Awaken: Yet, I’ve noticed, within the flowing sequence of movements, in the form that you practice, it is punctuated with sudden, faster movements… Can you speak about that?

Lou: The faster movements within this form, are known as Fajin, which can be translated as “explosive power,”  emphasizing the internal energy, instead of muscular force. Fajin is the explosive release of refined power, utilizing relaxed, whole body movements.

Maintaining proper gravitational alignment is crucial for full expression of Fajin… more than just a matter of speed, it is made possible by loose and sudden movement. It is an instant energy release, as though someone threw a pot of boiling water on you.

Awaken: How do you distinguish the practice, relative to those who practice for health reasons, versus those who practice for self-defense?

Lou: The movements can be performed slowly and gently for health benefits, or faster, and more powerfully, for self defense applications.

This is the only system that I know of, where fighters and doctors merge their knowledge together, to create a form that is aggressive, eloquent, communicative, foundation-building, and in every way, good for the mind, body, soul, and spirit.

Awaken: What is one of the greatest lessons you have learned personally, from your Tai Chi practice?

Lou: You are constantly being told by your teacher, to do it slowly. The tendency… because we’re all living in this frenetic city, is to do it quickly. But if you do it quickly, you’re usually skipping over a whole bunch of moves that are the ones that protect your knee, and your back, ankle… and eventually, you start learning from the form to slow down and pay attention. And if you slow down and pay attention, you start actually feeling these moves.

For instance, I still remember how startling it was to realize, I have toes on my foot! When you get out of these huge sneakers, that have so much cushioning, when you get out of that, you actually grab the floor! That’s a whole other experience… when you start actually using your feet! And when you start using your feet, you’re using your legs. And it goes on, ad infinitum… but that’s because of going slower, and learning to be patient with the Tai Chi… to be able to focus.

One of the things you discover in it, is the idea that if you’re moving forward—the first lesson from Master Ren was—it’s as though you haven’t committed your whole body to the step. Is it solid ground?

Or, when you’re going backwards… the reverse of it… What am I stepping on? This is great in New York, when it’s winter and icy because you’re applying it to walking, which, right off the bat… there’s a real practical… people slip, things happen.

That way of being, that kind of awareness in your legs can really, really help you in every conceivable way.

Awaken: At its heart, Tai Chi teaches you to work with your energy, right? What would you say to those who may not be used to thinking about their bodies and their energy in these subtler ways?

Lou: We’re all very individual. And the expression of the energy is very individual, as well. But it’s the expression of the energy that’s a very exciting thing. As you get to know your body, and how to protect it, how to use it… how to use that energy in ways that will make you stronger.

Awaken: But I mean… energy, in the sense of it being this invisible, driving force in the universe. How does Tai Chi bring us in touch with that unseen force that we’re merely a part of?

Lou: I have often thought of Tai Chi as some kind of physical unity to the universe itself, some strange ancient methodology that could link us to the basic energy wave of existence. I don’t want to seem mystical, but something does happen to you when you practice this ancient art. There are history books about the families, the creators of all this, should you like to know.

And it is an art, though rarely seen by us, here in the States. It won’t really help to see martial arts movies, as they will not show you. We are talking of the art and internal power of Tai Chi.

Many people talk of internal power but they never actually do it. It’s always some form of external force, like Bruce Lee’s one-inch punch. I’m talking about no-inch punch. And not only punch but every part of your body—your chest, your elbow, your butt, your entire body at any time and any place.

Awaken: Yes, in the west, we tend to emphasize what is visible, whereas the Taoist roots of Tai Chi remind us of the hidden power within… that which is not visible. and how to tap into that! In this sense, wouldn’t you say it’s quite liberating, in that it frees us from the usual ways of approaching things?

Lou: Tai Chi frees you from preconceptions—music or tempo, this, that, or the other thing. It is, I think, a pretty enabling kind of thing. I hate to use that word, “enabling,” but there it is. It’s very, very useful for centering yourself, for experiencing these different kinds of disciplines, be it meditation, body-work, Tai Chi, Yoga, whatever. Or I like to just have it going all the time because it makes the outside sounds into a more musical environment.

Awaken: Are you saying that in a sense, it spiritualizes your life?

Lou: Spirituality is the domain of other people far more knowledgeable than me…

Awaken: How do you start your day?

Lou: Every day, I warm up and do the high stretch, so that I can do the kicks and the low stance. You have to warm up. So we start out easy. I do it every day… I have to do it every day. But you don’t have to worry about it… Nobody does big kicks in every day life! Ren said, if I ever beat him, he retires on the spot!

We have an expression, “use it or lose it.” Very easy to lose it… went through way too much to get it!

Awaken: I’d like to segue into your writing because although you are known for your music… Aside from Tai Chi, writing is your other true passion…

Lou: I’ve only been interested in one thing all along… I was interested in putting adult words to rock ‘n’ roll, and to write about subjects that were interesting to me and to adults… that you wouldn’t be embarrassed to listen to, and that you didn’t have to be a 12-year-old to listen to.

Awaken: You wanted to create music that was a bit more refined than the run of the mill, pop music catalogue…

Lou: I wanted to do it on the level of a novel… I wanted to write a novel. I wanted to write Macbeth. I wanted to write Hamlet. I wanted to write a king Lear… I wanted to write Othello in a rock ‘n’ roll song.

Awaken: Most people don’t know about your background in creative writing, or that your real desire was to make music infused with that level of sophistication…

Lou: I like making rock ‘n’ roll songs… I always have, I still do, and I like putting them on record. After that, if I could sustain the concentration necessary… it would be short stories. And if I could sustain it past that… We’ll see how well I can discipline myself… it would be a novel.

I was one of those people… and I studied creative writing in school. You know, I went to creative writing class, then I went home because the assignment was to turn in a 15 page short story the next day. That’s my background.

Awaken: That explains the emphasis on lyrics and the spoken word in your music! It seems very few rock bands even emphasize the lyrics at all…

Lou: Usually it’s only the instruments that matter. The lyrics are garbage. So much of rock ‘n’ roll is oriented toward younger kids… or 14 year-old males. What about the rest of us who still really like rock ‘n’ roll? It would be nice to be able to go listen to rock ‘n’ roll, and have it be on the level of a novel. And still have the fun of the rock ‘n’ roll. Nobody’s writing anything good, except me!

Awaken: Frustrated with the norms of the rock ‘n’ roll scene and simultaneously fueled by your love of the written word, you announced your decision to leave that world, and proclaimed yourself a poet at Saint Mark’s Church, one day in 1971… Would you share a bit of your poetry with us?

Lou:

When you pass through the fire, you pass through humble

You pass through a maze of self doubt

When you pass through humble, the lights can blind you

Some people never figure that out

You pass through arrogance, you pass through hurt

You pass through an ever present past

And it’s best not to wait for luck to save you

Pass through the fire to the light

Pass through the fire to the light

Pass through the fire to the light

It’s best not to wait for luck to save you

Pass through the fire to the light

As you pass through the fire, your right hand waving
There are things you have to throw out
That caustic dread inside your head
Will never help you out
You have to be very strong, ’cause you’ll start from zero
Over and over again
And as the smoke clears, there’s an all consuming fire
Lyin’ straight ahead
Lyin’ straight ahead
Lyin’ straight ahead
As the smoke clears there’s an all consuming fire
Lyin’ straight ahead

Awaken: That is of course, from the longer piece called “Magic and Loss,” which was included on the album by the same name, released in 1992. In that bit, it almost sounds as if you are encouraging those who are down and out, to keep on going… reminding them to be strong. Would that be accurate at all? And were you writing for anyone in particular?

Lou: I’m writing for the people who didn’t have an idyllic start.

I think not everybody gets a chance in life that’s fair, and not everybody grows up in a loving household with these wonderful parents, and money, and great opportunities. Or, just a happy childhood and a happy situation.

What about those people? I don’t think there’s anything that I’m writing about that isn’t universal to most people.

Awaken: Why the title “Magic and Loss”?

Lou: The whole album and the title is an example of how to deal with loss. And the ability to deal with loss, and the process that takes place, which makes that possible, I think of as “magic.” I also think of music as “magic.”

Awaken: Who influenced you the most, in your all the facets of your work?

Lou: I studied with a poet named Delmore Schwartz. I was very influenced by him, and by the way he wrote. And I went straight from him to Andy Warhol, which means that I had contact with two geniuses. I went from one straight into the other. You could think of it as “Grad School.”

Awaken: Andy Warhol took you under his wing, so to speak, and managed The Velvet Underground. What did he mean to you?

Lou: Without Andy Warhol… odds are, I wouldn’t be here.

Awaken: Is there a common thread that runs throughout these two very special influences in your life?

Lou: From Delmore and Andy, I learned an admiration for the title of something… The title. If you really got the title… the title should play with the mind of the person reading it. In Delmore’s case, it was poetry, in Andy’s case, it was movies…

Awaken: With that, I’d like to thank you again Lou, for sharing your time and your passions with us, today!

This is one of Awaken’s Dream Interviews, conducted by Donna Quesada Schollhammer, and all answers are verbatim from Lou Reed.