Donna Quesada: It might be something as simple as stopping in the middle of a conversation that feels a little bit tense.
And asking yourself, am I choosing from love? Am I speaking from love?
Gary Zukav: Precisely. Yes, that’s it. Exactly, it’s stopping whatever you’re doing in the moment if you’re not aware and becoming aware, aware of what? What is my intention? If you want to consult intuition, start there.
Before you speak or act, if you’re not sure what your intention is, ask yourself, what is my intention? And you will not be alone in the answer.
DONNA: It really can shift a life, not only for a day but your entire life, can’t it?
GARY: What is the it?
DONNA: Choosing love.
GARY: Yes. Choosing fear can do that too. It’s your choice. It can shift your life into despair, mania, despair, despondency, schizophrenia, violence, judgment, withdrawal, isolation… and choosing love can shift your life into the opposite…
I just want to mention while we’re on here, creating authentic power is not an event, it’s a process. So the first time you learn about mindfulness meditation, you don’t become mindful, but you can’t experience it again and again.
Heartfulness meditation is more than that. Mindfulness meditation you might say is… taking a ride in a self-driving car, you’re looking around, you’re watching what’s happening… what’s passing by the windows and not getting attached to it.
Heartfulness meditation is different. It’s intentional… you put yourself in the driver’s seat, you decide where you’re going to drive the car. You can drive it any way you want. You will not be judged by the universe. But in one direction, you go to one destination and in the other, you go to other destinations. Why not choose those destinations that are joyful and meaningful and light?
DONNA: Absolutely. Are you suggesting that simply choosing love is an antidote to all of the depression and anxiety and mental challenges that so many are facing today?
GARY: Not in this simple… in the way you’re saying it is a simple antidote… like Prozac. Is it a simple antidote to stress? No, it is a powerful insightful excavation into your own internal dynamics, into those very dynamics that produce these painful things that you just mentioned.
And into those that produce the opposite and then choosing with your volition. Not the volition of your parents, not the volition of your pears, not the volition of your preacher or your therapist, not the volition of someone who’s got a television show or has written some books. But your relation. You. What do you choose?
When I was learning about my addiction to sex. It was a process that was… I learned a lot from. You can learn about it yourself by reading the addiction chapter in the Seat of the Soul. And there came a time when I realized that the power was entirely in my hands.
I could choose to continue learning through that behavior or choose not to. And each choice was as equally attractive as the other. They were perfectly balanced and there was no one else present to lead me toward one or lead me toward the other.
It was my choice and no one else’s. That terrified me in that moment. But I saw it. I felt it. There was no reward waiting for me to say, “I’ll stop this. I’ll stop using women”. There was no… punishment for me if I chose not to. It was my choice. My life, my consequences, my experiences, mine. I didn’t own it. I was it. I chose. Stop.
DONNA: What was the catalyst for that moment? That moment of insight, that it was yours, that the choice was yours only.
GARY: The hard work that I’d done. And our consciousness, and the new consciousness is bringing each of us to that moment, not in regard to an addiction. An addiction is a frightened part of your personality, the strongest, it’s your greatest inadequacy. It’s the part of yourself that’s most in the control of the external world. But it’s a frightened part.
DONNA: So, it’s looking for a crutch in the outside world for some form of control because it feels powerless?
GARY: Exactly. It’s a mask. It felt powerful if you can fire someone, if you’re the boss, if you talk louder or dominate someone. These are experiences of powerlessness. The characteristics of an authentically powerful personality, or humbleness, clarity, forgiveness, and love. Love is the big one. Love is all there is. Love is real.
Fear is the illusion that I mentioned. It’s the illusion that your pain is coming from the external world. It’s the illusion that you can get out of pain by changing the external world. You cannot try as often as you like, you’ve been trying for ages… it’s ages, literally lifetimes. Perhaps many lifetimes.
But if you’re not convinced, keep trying in this lifetime. It doesn’t matter how many lifetimes you try. You cannot remove your inner pain by changing the outer world.
You and the outer world are not different. If you want the world to be joyful, loving and compassionate, caring, become those things yourself. And the way to do that is to find and move beyond the control of all of those parts of your personality that prevents you from doing that, which means prevent you from loving.
DONNA: So, come back to the heart, time and time again…
GARY: Yes. When you say come back, what are you talking about?
DONNA: I’m back because…
GARY: Know what? What are you coming back to? What is it that’s coming back?
DONNA: The awareness.
GARY: Precisely. You’ve never been apart from love. You are love, everything is, the universe is love.
DONNA: But we forget because something else has…
GARY: No, we forget because we chose to incarnate into the earth’s core. And memories of the things, some of the things that I’m sharing become soft when that happens, and then they’re forgotten, but you will experience all of them when you die.
I’m speaking directly now to everyone who’s listening to us. There is a part of your personality that is immortal. And to find real power is not a matter of locating, but of recreating love. And it’s not love that you stumble upon, fall into, or have given.
But that you choose. And as you choose to love you become able to. This is all tied together with the new consciousness. It’s that new consciousness that allows me to say these things in you to resonate with him.
My parents would not have resonated with any of this. They had nothing in their experience of the five senses to latch onto. But you do because you’re multi-sensory. Not to make it your own but to experiment with it.
You are loved. Your life is love even though it’s painful. The earth’s core is a gift of love. It is that learning in the earth’s core is fundamental to evolution itself. Because responsibility and learning this is fundamental to the earth’s core.
Brighten parts of yourself think that they are less than significant. Or inflate themselves and think that they are very significant in which case they become even less than that. In terms of…
DONNA: Do you think that we should be approaching things like education differently, so as to foster this kind of awareness
GARY: Absolutely. If you have this kind of awareness yourself… If you don’t you’ll just be proposing a dogma. We have lots of dogmas already.
DONNA: Yes.
GARY: All of our social structures are disintegrating. Because they’re built on the obsolete and now toxic understanding of power as the ability to manipulate control… that is external power. New social structures are in the process of emerging from human experience that are based on the new power, harmony, cooperation.
DONNA: So, what would be our role? Because as you were saying in the beginning of our conversation, we don’t want to impose because, you know, this is coming from a place of external power. But how do we balance that need of acceptance with the need to shape our educational system so as to reflect this consciousness, or nurture and support the growth of this kind of conscious awareness?
GARY: This is just what we’ve been talking about since we started. It depends upon the intention you hold.
DONNA: Within my heart…
GARY: That’s right. If you have an attachment, when an attachment enters the picture and intention becomes a requirement.
DONNA: Then it’s a manipulation if there’s an attachment there.
GARY: Yes.
DONNA: Yeah.
GARY: They are the same. Manipulation, attachment, pain, emotional pain… they all are the same. You can choose between love and fear… you must, moment by moment, in the earth’s core. This is the nature of the earth’s core.
You are responsible for how you choose to use your energy. This is so for every form of life in the earth’s core. How do I balance love and fear? How do I balance having children and needing to be myself? How do I balance in education?
The love that I feel with what I need to teach. There’s no balance. You choose what you’re going to do, not what you’re going to do, but how you’re going to do it… with love or with fear? If you’re a teacher… teach with love or with fear. You will teach with one or the other. Why not choose consciously?
DONNA: I guess, to say it differently, the whole process of politics is an external kind of affair, it focuses on the external world.
GARY: Correct.
DONNA: What you’re saying… if I’m understanding right, is to not impose, but where does this lead to the political realm? Because we’re choosing what kind of world we want and how we will shape it.
GARY: No. Not we, you. You are choosing, you’re not choosing for someone else. Politics is the realm of external power. The social structure of governance is now disintegrating. It doesn’t matter who we elect in this country, or who they elect in Germany.
DONNA: It’s still disintegrating.
GARY: The social structure itself has no further use to our evolution and is counterproductive. Let’s take our own government and for those of you who are listening, we’re talking about… Where are you located?
DONNA: Right now? I’m in Tennessee.
Gary: Well, so you’re in the U.S.
DONNA: Yes.
GARY: I am also… So when I say, let’s look at our country, that we too are living in, its form of governance is Constitutional Representative Democracy. Constitutional Representative Democracy in my opinion is the finest creation of a five-century species in the realm of external power.
It is designed to harness conflicting pursuits of external power for the common good. We have three branches of government. Each of those branches has different requirements for membership. Members are elected from different places for different lengths of time and have different responsibilities.
And these three branches of government all have the ability to affect the other two. This is the famous system of checks and balances in the American Constitution. That is the harnessing of conflicting pursuits of external power for the common good.
What happens when there is no good of any kind in any circumstance to the pursuit of external power? We are living in that time now.
DONNA: Yes. So what is the answer? Love. I got it, right?
GARY: Of course you do. But there’s no right and there’s no wrong. If you’re thinking you’ll be judged or damned if you think that love isn’t the thing that’s ultimate, or rewarded if you think that it is… Everyone has a belief system. I suggest that you look at your belief system. I’m speaking out to everyone that’s listening to us.
And see if it’s one that you want to continue with. I suggest that the best belief system when you look at all the belief systems that are possible and you will choose one. I believe that it’s better to choose one… better in the sense that it will serve your own spiritual development.
Your movement beyond fear and pain, and into love and joy and meaning. It will serve that your spiritual development to pick a belief system that doesn’t have the element of fear in it.
DONNA: That’s wonderful. That’s very practical. Choose a system that supports my pursuit of love, our pursuit of love as a people… that creates or sets up the conditions, could we say?
GARY: Yes, you can say that, too. So I suggest the belief system that I’ve been describing. The belief system that the universe is alive and well and competitive.
DONNA: And then embraces love rather than promotes hate.
Gary: Not embraces love. That is love. And there is nothing that stands outside of the universe because there is no outside.
DONNA: And on that…Thank you once again. Unless there’s anything else that you’d like to share with us.
GARY: It has been a joy to be with you. Yes, there is, we’ve started a new program, a few months ago. It’s called “An Evening with Gary Zukav.” It’s a subscription program. Go to our website, which is named after the book. The website is “theseatofthesoul.com.”
DONNA: A seat of the soul dot com, and there will be information about the program.
GARY: About a lot of things that can support you. Some of them are free, some of them are not… and click on “Evening with Gary Zukav” and it’s just like what we’re doing, except that you the listeners now get to ask me the questions. And this happens every month.
DONNA: We will put that information alongside the interview.
GARY: Thank you. Was such a joy to speak with you.
Donna: Thank you, Gary. It was a pleasure and I thank you one more time for this hour that you’ve given us. And I know it’ll be of great benefit to many.
GARY: Oh, it’s so good. Let’s stay in touch, okay?
DONNA: Okay. Thank you.
GARY: Okay. You’re welcome.
Read and Watch Pt 1 Here: Awaken Interviews Gary Zukav Pt 1 – To Change the World, You Need to Change Yourself
Read and Watch Pt 2 Here: Awaken Interviews Gary Zukav Pt 2 – Wherever There Is Love, There Is Not Fear
Read and Watch Pt 3 Here: Awaken Interviews Gary Zukav Pt 3 – The Three Tools to Creating Authentic Power
