Jonathan Robinson LMFT: After doing my Master’s thesis on the therapeutic effects of MDMA on PTSD in 1984,
I’ve led journeys with perhaps 500 individuals and 150 couples as an underground therapist. Due to the drug being illegal during this period, I’ve had to keep my research and observations under the radar. Now that MDMA and psychedelics are becoming more accepted—and even gaining legal status in some places, I’ve been more open about what I’ve learned. In fact, starting about three years ago, I did something I had never tried before: leading an MDMA session over Zoom.
Due to Covid making in-person sessions impossible for a while, I ventured to give a “Zoom session” a shot. For safety’s sake, I made sure my client had someone nearby in case any problems arose. To my astonishment, the session was not only good, but it was one of the best sessions I’d ever witnessed. This gave me the courage to try it again–and again.
Now 3.5 years later, I’ve led perhaps 200 sessions over Zoom. In addition, I’ve led an online course where I’ve taught 80 therapists my unique protocol over Zoom. So far, these 80 therapists have done a combined total of about 500 Zoom session with MDMA. Through our shared Telegram account, I’ve asked these therapists what they’ve noticed from their experience. So far, the only trouble they’ve encountered are internet connections that were sub-par. Although part of my protocol is that clients have a nearby friend or mate who can help them during a very difficult time, no one (yet) has needed that kind of support. In addition, like me, many of these therapists have reported their MDMA Zoom sessions seem to be even more effective than their in-person sessions.
I’m imagining that you’re as surprised as I initially was that sessions done over Zoom seem to work as well or better than in-person journeys. Of course, the obvious question is, “Why?”
It is indeed an interesting and unexpected phenomenon. Since I don’t have hundreds of thousands of dollars to do a scientific study about it, I can only speculate. My guess is that a major reason MDMA therapy is so effective is because it creates a feeling of extreme safety, thus helping folks to fearlessly look at their issues. Going to a stranger’s office and taking a drug may not be the best setting for helping people feel safe. On the other hand, when sessions are conducted over Zoom, a client is safely and comfortably in their own home. The MDMA medicine, along with being in their home, creates the ultimate feeling of safety. From such a feeling, the therapeutic process works amazingly well.
A client named Sarah, who had been raped when she was 17, met me on Zoom for a one-hour consultation. She had done weekly therapy for her PTSD for two years, but to no avail. Sarah had heard of MDMA-assisted therapy for treating her symptoms, but didn’t like the idea of going to a stranger’s office and “being drugged” as a way to treat her fear of men. When a friend of Sarah’s told her I do most of my sessions over Zoom, she was intrigued. After our initial call, Sarah and I set a time for her MDMA journey over Zoom.
While on MDMA, Sarah said she felt “safer than I’ve ever felt in my life.” I gently guided Sarah through various methods for treating PTSD, such as exposure therapy, reframing, CBT, and guided meditations. For the first time in her life, she was able to reimagine the rape with no sense of fear. By the end of the session, she felt only compassion for herself and her perpetrator. In our integration session a week later, Sarah reported, “My symptoms and fear are gone. Gone!” When I asked her what she thought was the most help, she reported, “Certainly the medicine, but doing the session over Zoom–in my own room–was really important. It made me feel so safe that I could look at things I had been too scared to look at before.”
There are several other reasons why doing MDMA sessions over Zoom can be beneficial for both the client and the therapist. First, there is cost. The average “underground” therapist has to charge more to maintain an office for their clients. Besides the added expense, a client often has the added inconvenience of traveling a long way to see their therapist or MDMA guide. In my case, most of my clients are coming to me from other countries–so being able to do our journey over Zoom is no small matter.
Besides safety and cost issues, a third added benefit of Zoom led journeys has to do with boundaries. Obviously, one does not need to worry so much about issues around boundary violations when you are in a different location than your client. Of course, there are also disadvantages to the separation of distance, but not having to worry about physical contact and its many ethical concerns can be a feature–not just a disadvantage. Especially when I have worked with women who have been sexually abused, I’ve found the boundary that Zoom creates leads to more relaxation for the client, as well as better results than in-person sessions.
A fourth benefit to Zoom led sessions is it can help avoid potential legal problems. Since I am not physically handing clients an illegal medicine, I am not in legal jeopardy. Clients are responsible for what they ingest in the privacy of their own home. Clients either obtain the medicine on their own, or I give them the Signal account (fully encrypted) of a person who can supply them with pure MDMA. In many years of me and other underground therapists using this approach to obtaining medicine, so far no one has had any problems.
Finally, a fifth potential benefit to Zoom led sessions is how it effects the integration process. When a person goes to a clinic or an office to do an MDMA session, their intense experience takes place in a novel environment. Sometimes people have a hard time integrating the learning that occurs in a new environment into their day-to-day environment. On the other hand, when I lead journeys over Zoom, my client is typically in their home. I believe the fact that their experience occurs in their home makes the integration of new ideas and behaviors easier and longer lasting. Once again, I don’t have research to back this up, but over the years I’ve seen that my Zoom led clients integrate their experiences better than my in-person clients.
There is still much we don’t know about how best to conduct MDMA therapy. At one time, many “experts” thought MDMA would just retraumatize clients with PTSD. It has taken a lot of studies and many years, but these so-called experts have been proven wrong. I understand that Zoom sessions may sound “weird” or not as therapeutic, but that too may eventually be proven to be mistaken. Only time–and a bunch of studies–will let us know for sure. In the meantime, rest assured that the preliminary findings seem to be quite good for Zoom led sessions. I encourage you to experiment with such a protocol for clients that don’t suffer from severe PTSD.
Starting in mid-September, I lead a 25-hour online course on how to lead effective MDMA journeys over Zoom. You can find out all about this training at this link: https://dandelion.events/e/q0lzj You can get a 12% discount by using the coupon code “perfectly”. If you have any questions, or if I can be of any help to you, feel free to contact me at: iamjonr@aol.com
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Jonathan Robinson LMFT is an author of 14 books, the host of Awareness Explorers podcast, and a regular on shows such as Oprah and CNN. His website is: FindingHappiness.com
