Donna Quesada: In this moment, the stories that you’re sharing are better than everything that I thought we were going to talk about.

But I do want to ask you, speaking of, you were saying I love it when it’s practical, when I can actually use this stuff. How have these experiences positively affected your life? Have you been living with more joy for having seen through reality, let’s say.

Fu-Ding Cheng: I totally, like you have no idea like… Actually I did a TikTok thing about how they say life begins at 40. I said, you know that’s true from my experience. Every is does. But why stop there? Life gets joyous at 60. You put it all together. And so right now, I miss young. I feel younger now than I did when I was in college. I feel happier. Nothing, I haven’t been bothered by anything, seriously for ages in decades. During COVID, even when my car got stolen and [inaudible], “Oh, what a bummer. How can that happen?” And then you can’t even get the cops because nobody’s could come in any ways that f[inaudible]. But thanks to all this shamanic training and it’s, “Oh, be detached. Don’t get caught in the dream of the planet. Wake up from all that. What goes around will come around. What’s truly yours will surely come.” etc. All these things find a place in your psyche so that nothing really bothers me. And if something did bother me, like there have been times this a the 2008 economy, attained all of a sudden when I was trying to get money out of the bank, they froze everything and so the money I was depending on for the next three quarter years to finish this book and stuff like they froze at all like yikes. All of a sudden is money is rambling. How can I pay the rent and the mortgage and all that stuff. So luckily with my shamanic training, okay, don’t take it personally. Don’t waste [inaudible] condemning the world or the politics or anything. Find out what you need to do. Find the next step to get by this day, one day at a time kind of a thing. And sure enough…

Donna: I’m sorry you had mentioned something that is important to me, too. That idea of not taking it personally and I recognize that from The Four Agreements which was…

Fu-Ding: Yeah. That’s a really great one.

Donna: Would that be or let me just put it differently. What would be your favorite or more your go-to tool to keep yourself positive and hopeful in a world where we are dealing with environmental degradation and COVID and all of these things?

Fu-Ding: I would say be in the third attention. What that means is like there’s to know the third attention when I know the first and the second attention. There’s a law in shamanic training. Custom natives talks about this too. I don’t know if you know custom natives were.

Donna: A little bit. Not too deeply.

Fu-Ding: Anyway, so the first attention is what were born into.

Donna: The first attention.

Fu-Ding: The first attention. Yeah. Attention.

Donna: Okay.

Fu-Ding: So that’s where we have put our attention. We’re told to do that or instructed, right. The baby, it’s an infant. Don’t do this. Do this. Eat this. We’re right on the from the get-go told what to do. Okay. So then as we grow up, we go to public school and go to college whatever. That’s all the first attention. You’re born and then life just puts this onslaught of information and so on to you.

Donna: So it just is what it is. We don’t question…

Fu-Ding: It is what it is. And then you may like it and then typically people like some parts and not like other part. They blame the parts they don’t like and on something and so on. Okay, that’s typical. From the shamanic practice, we say, “Wait, hold it.” Not everything from the dream of the planet as we call it. They give you that first attention input. It’s actually good for you. A lot of it is really delusion. There will always be wars. Well, that’s not true. Yeah, but you know, that’s not what we believe or women are second-class citizens. Well, we that’s not true except that’s how society has been acting and so on. Chinese, prejudices, there’s all kinds of layers of stuff.

Donna: Yeah.

Fu-Ding: Right. So in the second attention now, this is imagine you’re in shamanic practice. You are now [inaudible] wholesale taking in everything, “Wait, hold it. Hold it. I’m in a pick and choose what I want in my world from the dream of the planet.” It’s everything just…

Donna: We’re using the discriminating mind for this second attention.

Fu-Ding: Yeah.

Donna: Let’s say this is serving me, this is not.

Fu-Ding: Exactly.

Donna: Okay.

Fu-Ding: And it’s not judgment. This is good. I won’t have it. This is bad or whatever. It’s not good or bad. It’s this truth. This is illusion? Will this serve my ego or would this serve my heart, that kind of thing. These are our discernment, but they’re not judgments.

Donna: Does it served my ego or does it serve my heart? I love that.

Fu-Ding: Yeah. That one thing who’s like I have when teaching. Well, we’ll get to that in the same. So the second attention as you creating a heaven on Earth, so now you’re picking your friends, your choice of activities, what you want to do and where. You’re creating it slowly as best as we can, creating a heaven on Earth. Okay. So that’s already put you head and shoulders above most people. And you actually like your world and your own room, your whatever. Now then there’s a third attention. Okay, that’s what we’re getting at. The third attention is yet another state of consciousness where you are like the witness. You’re completely detached from the dream of the planet, the big cosmic illusion. You know it exists. I know I have to be part of it, however, I’m going to be an Illusionist playing in this illusion to wake up from the illusion and then I’ll know who I truly am. I am God. I’m bigger than the ups and downs of life. I am imperishable Consciousness goes forever. I’m not die-able. I’m not vulnerable. I’ve been always, you know, you’re into a whole other mindset. And you can experience it. It’s not just a nice idea. You can actually experience. So going back to your question, third attention. If I had one thing to hang on to stay in the third attention, to all the horrors we see in the world, with the wars and everything, is all part of Maya. It’s all part of samsara. You might have heard that for you, right? That’s just the game of life. It’s a mess. It’s always a mess. It’s always been a mess, but we don’t have to be a mess. We can, first of all, being the second attention. So you have a electro magnetic force field around you that protects you of your own heaven on Earth. That’s one level. And then your own psyche is you’re in the third attention anyway. So you’re like watching the whole thing as a witness.

Donna: So these would almost be like the stages of awakening as well to bring us back around full circle.

Fu-Ding: That’s right. You can see it that way. We’d be good. Now, the beautiful part like once I went Don Miguel and I told them, “You know I’ve been practicing The Four Agreements have been doing this and this and that.” I was doing a checklist of what a good boy I am and he was saying, “Wait, what’s your problem. You were in the third attention, but now you’re out of it again. Why did you leave the third attention?” I said, “But wait. Don Miguel, the third attention you witness everything. You see everything, that’s true. But you can’t do anything. It’s like as if you were in a movie theater and you’re watching this movie and there’s all these emotions gets provoked. You’re angry here, you’re happy there. But whether you’re happy or angry, you can’t do anything about it. You’re in the audience, right? It’s already set and everything, right?” And so I said to him, “Don Miguel, but so if I’m in the third attention but I want to do things. I’m an artist. I’m going to create things as fun etc. then I have to leave the third attention and go into the second attention to actually do things, right?” He said, ” Okay. No, you do what you have to do in the second attention. Let your body do whatever has to do in the second attention, but you always stay in the third attention.” And I thought to myself, “But wait a moment that means how can I be in two places at once?” And then I get it, “Oh, we’re multi-dimensional beings.” You can stay in the third attention. Nothing will hurt you. You see everything, even all the wars and everything. You see what it is.

Donna: There’s a part of you that keeps a kind of distance if you will.

Fu-Ding: Yes, exactly. That distance is a lifesaver. So when horrible things happening in nowadays, there’s a lot that is happening.

Donna: Yeah. In the last few moments together, you wanted to say something about the heart versus the ego, which I’m very interested in.

Fu-Ding: Oh, okay. Yeah. So one thing we say like, here’s an easy solution to a lot of spiritual questions.

Donna: Okay.

Fu-Ding: Okay. It is a short one. Who’s on the throne your ego or your heart? So let’s say everybody complains about the government, okay, understandable. But I say to them, “But you are a leader. You are a leader of your queendom of your realm or the kingdom of your realm. You’ve got million of subjects. There’s all your cells, not to mention your organs, your heart, your lungs, your all those, and they want advice. They want attention. They went TLC. They went miracles. Have you given anything? No. They [inaudible] like, all right. And then like your taste buds wants that pie, okay and it deserves now and then. But then stomach says no, I can’t digest all that sugar. Okay. So, decisions have to be made. If you’re going to have peace of mind, you’re going to have to have peace inside you and they’re all have different goals, different values, different demands, so values have to be set your priorities. Who’s calling the set, calling the shots? Who’s on the throne, your ego or your heart? Now if it’s your ego, good luck, you’re never going to be really happy. Your ego, now I’m defining it from Carl Jung’s definition of the ego. Ego is a bundle of thoughts that can comprise yourself identity. In other words, most people think they are according to what they’re thinking mind says they are. I’m 5 foot so and so, I weigh so much, I’m an Aquarian, I went to school here and so on. Okay. All those are other thinking mind. Now the bad news is that it ignores a lot of the most wonderous experiences any human being can have. It’s on the emotional side, the intuitive side, the epiphanies, the visions, the joy and love, compassion, wonder, all those are outside of the realm of the thinking mind. So most people who think they are what their ego says they are, have cut off a huge part of themselves without even knowing.

Donna: And what does that look like? What does a decision look like when it’s coming from the head or the ego as opposed to the heart?

Fu-Ding: They say, let’s see. Let’s say COVID happen. Okay. I wanted to take a trip. I cannot go on this trip. Okay. The ego sees that’s the fucked-up world against you. Nobody knows anything in there. Probably, they even made up this disease, like they did the Native American Indians. That’s what always happens because you always get Sucker Punch because the 1% or some secret guy they’re calling the shots and they’re calling, they’re creating wars now. They’re manufacturing wars to sell war weapons. And you can just tailspin real negative, and there’s a lot of truth to the all that stuff. Okay, that’s the ego talking. The thinking mind side of things. Whereas your heart sighs, “Oh, COVID. Oh, gee. So many people are suffering. I’m going to give a prayer to all the people are suffering, who have lost jobs, and some was a waiter at some so was all restaurant business is pretty well, super suppress and so I’ll look how much I think I’m going to give more tip on the service to restaurant. People just make up. Anyway, your whole mindset is different. It’s a hard thing is where do we connect, how are we compassionate as compared to about…

Donna: [inaudible] to play Devil’s Advocate, people are probably saying, but the world is messed up and it was a kind of a plot or this or that and they are doing horrible things and they’re knowingly doing horrible things. So sometimes the stories that the ego spins are valid.

Fu-Ding: Oh, a lot of them are. That’s why we get hooked in. Now here’s the antidote.

Donna: Okay. So you’re saying, but if we reside in the heart, we’re being the solution rather than just the spinning the story and making it bigger?

Fu-Ding: Yes, if you’re from the heart. Okay. Then let’s presume you’re also in the third attention, right? One of the first things that will teach you if you’re from the heart is to see the full extent of who you are. Part of you is God, right? Don’t forget that. That’s essential.

Donna. I can do better than [inaudible].

Fu-Ding: So the lower shock won’t… Exactly. Yeah, just because the world is like going down the toilet, you will feel that way, it doesn’t mean it is going that way. It just feels that way, that’s one thing.

Donna: Okay.

Fu-Ding: Okay. Anything can happen. Literally, the Bubonic plague, horrible, gave birth to the Renaissance. Check it out. Google it. You’ll see exactly what happened. It’s wonderful, but that really happened. And there’s many many examples like that in life, right? The thing you would think the worst or even in our own lives like the worst thing my own childhood actually drove me to take the spiritual path or I die ahead of my time. And in this decision to take the spiritual path, it’s now yielded so many treasures that I can say when I think back in those days and I think thank you adversity for kicking me onto the path, right? It really, that’s Divine Alchemy and I’m sure you do it all the time. You get something negative, you shift your perspective and then you can turn it into a positive. Like even if you’ve completely failed to say ahead that I put a lot of time in that I really love, I still love and never, never came to pass for various reasons. You know how the film was really complicated and one thing often everything crumbles. Okay, if I were in my ego side, see something, you just can’t, you can’t do it. You just can’t make it happen. Look, you work on this so long and you’re dedicated and it’s just not in you to do it. Okay, then that’s a complete bummer, right? Or on the other hand is actually what I chose to do was say, “Oh, well, I gave my best stay out of the rest. What everything that you do that you like that is good is going to happen. Life is what it is.” So these are the times when I learn the sense of eating bitter. This is in statement like sometimes life is sweet, sometimes it’s bitter. Don’t complain. Don’t bitch about it. It’s just what it is. Okay. You don’t have to like it now, but it’s still it is what it is. So now it’s the time to practice forbearance. The ability to have the slings and arrows come at you without getting thrown off center. You kind of taken the shot, “Oh, this is one of the sour parts of life, the bitter parts of life. No, time to practices in the eating bitter. You take it with, you’re accommodating it, you’re bigger than that bad problem. You’re tuning into your higher self. That’s like all the ups and downs. You’re way bigger than the ups and downs of life.

Donna: Well on that note, our time has reached an end, but I want to just tell you how much I’ve enjoyed this time with you. You’re a true teacher. You really are. You’ve share just wonderful bits of wisdom with us and I’ve so enjoyed your stories.

Fu-Ding: Oh, I’m so glad.

Donna: [inaudible] on your journey, the magic and the practical and all of it. It’s been a development.

Fu-Ding: Oh, thank you. Yes, my big passion since waking up with Don Miguel. That’s a cheap. What should I do with myself, and he said, “That’s not my problem.” And then I said, “But thanks to you, I had these incredible experiences. What shall I do with them?” He says. “Well, maybe you should teach.” And ever since then I thought, I’m going to devote my life to spreading the deepest wisdoms to the widest number of people. And the deepest wisdom is to know your own look inside, know your own godhood inside and waking up to the Majesty that you really are. It’s amazing. What do they say in the bible, the Kingdom of Heaven is in you. It really is, take it. It’s your birthright. Seize it.

Donna: In my tradition of Kundalini Yoga, we call that satnaam. It’s the [inaudible] true the God within.

Fu-Ding: Yeah, that’s beautiful. So, all right, thank you.

Donna: Thank you again, Fu-Ding, satnaam.

Fu-Ding: This has been great. We will continue. Okay. All right. Thanks. See you again. It’s been a real joy.

Donna: Bye. Thank you. Bye.

Fu-Ding: Bye.

Read and Watch Pt 1 Here: Confronting the Shadows for a Breakthrough Experience

Read and Watch Pt2 Here: I’m Out Of My Body!